Misquoting Jesus
Posted by: Lorena on: November 4, 2009
I found Misquoting Jesus, by Bart Ehrman, quite informative. It was enlightening to know how the original writings were twisted around to nicely fit a scribe’s doctrinal leanings, and how the twisted text was copied again and again by other scribes.
Also useful was to learn of a particular set of verses which are central to the Christian faith today, but which origin is difficult to date, and it is even more difficult to be sure that they were penned by the original writers.
My favourite part was the chronology of manuscript findings, and how they were put together to create an official version of the New Testament. It is easy to see, by looking at their methods, how the NT we know today is made of bits and pieces of this and that manuscript of unknown origin.
I also learned other facts. For example, in the Greek manuscripts, there are no blanks to break down words. The break down was done via educated guesses of what the sentence possible meant. Errors could have been made while guessing.
All this is important if one considers how many denominations exist based on interpretations of single words, sentences, or verses, which is ridiculous, considering the impossibility of knowing what the original authors actually wrote. Like professor Herman says, we don’t have the originals. We don’t even have copies of copies of the originals. What we have is second and third century manuscripts that are the result of countless unreliable copying by scribes that were anything but highly skilled. In fact, some scribes didn’t even know how to read. They were basically drawing characters, ignoring what they were transcribing and, understandably, making many mistakes.
On the downside, the book can be quite repetitive, since topics heavily overlap, and the writer needs to constantly remind you of other factors, already discussed, that also make sense on other contexts.
Repetitions and all, however, the book is worth reading. I wish I’d read it when I was torn between having a difficult time believing and continuing to practice the religion I so didn’t want to leave.
The book left me hungry for more, but not more textual criticism. Now I want to read about the historical Jesus. For instance, the gospels say that Jesus walked on water, I don’t believe he did. Where did they get the idea? What did the historical Jesus really do or didn’t? Was there a historical Jesus at all?
I’ve been told there is a M. Shermer video I need to watch, but I like books better. Suggestions are welcome.
As it happens via a link from a friend from Atheist Nexus, Rosemary, I found a free e-book: The First Coming: How the Kingdom of God Became Christianity by Thomas Sheehan, of Standford University, that can be found here. I shall comment on the book when I finish reading.
For those interested in podcasts, Rosemary did recommend a webpage with interviews featuring professor Sheenan that can be found here.
28 Responses to "Misquoting Jesus"
November 4, 2009 at 6:49 pm
The problem with searching for the historical Jesus is that the man and his life have been so overlaid that it is next too impossible to know what is fact and what is fiction. For that matter, no one can be absolutely certain he ever existed at all! His portrayal may be an amalgamation of several people with a little myth mixed in for effect.
It’s the same problem that people these days have with many of the great Taoist sages. The titular father of classic Taoism, Lao Tzu, most likely never existed or, if he did, he most likely didn’t write most or all of the Tao Te Ching.
Of course, the prime difference here is that Christians view Jesus as the son of God or God incarnate, while Taoists merely view Lao Tzu as a wise man. Consequently, for Taoists, it really isn’t that important if Lao Tzu walked the earth or not. We concentrate on the message, not the author.
November 4, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Brian
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Thanks for the suggestion. I will add it to my to-read list. I just ordered “La Puta de Babilonia.” Five bucks including shipping and handling. I’ll be reading that one soon.
TRT
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Interesting, that Taoism’s said founding father also seems mythical. But you’re right, since Taoism isn’t a worshiping philosophy, it doesn’t really matter. For what I’ve seen Taoism is about living a better life, not about giving our money, energy, or prayers to an entity outside of ourselves. It really doesn’t matter who had the original great idea. And a great idea it was.
November 4, 2009 at 8:54 pm
When I first learned Japanese, it was very hard to separate words. They also don’t put spaces between words. Chinese does same and they are all ideographs — at least Japanese has a syllabic alphabet interspersed between the ideographs.
Wheeew, languages are tough !
You inspired me to re-read my notes in my Misquoting Jesus book.
Does anyone else write all over their books — fiction and non-fiction– like me? Tell me I am not alone.
November 4, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Sabio,
You’re alone. But I think you should share some of your notes with us. Now that you’ve confessed, you owe it to us.
At least, share one or two, so we can believe you. 
November 5, 2009 at 4:10 am
Hey Lorena: I know I am not alone ! I am certain ! The rest of you are just closet scribblers. What, do you feel a book is sacred and thus can not be written in? To write in the Koran is a great sin — that, of course, I have never done.
Maybe I will share notes, but only when I feel safe.
November 5, 2009 at 5:50 am
I did some research on this book and it is interesting to see how angry Christians get when they are faced with the possibility the Jesus was not a historical figure. Some actually have meltdowns when having discussions about it. A lot of critics claim that it offers only half truths and that he takes too many liberties when it comes to this book….The truth is that Christians just cannot mentally process this information…they are too brainwashed….again organized religion is the greatest form of mind control that has ever existed….Worldwide Christianity has over 2.1 Billion followers…..It is scary to think that this many people are convinced that Jesus was real…..I have a feeling that most just skim the surface of their religion….they go to church on occasion and may read The Bible every once in a while…but have never taken the time to explore in depth what religion is all about……It is like they are on auto pilot and just assume that their pastor and church leaders have it all right……..One last comment. I just watched a film called Zeitgeist and it in my opinion is really good. It covers religion and all of its fallacies, then does a piece on government cover ups, and finally gives some scandalous facts on the banking industry and financial system…… If anyone wants to watch it go to Google and just type in Zeitgeist….This movie will be a life changer for some who watch it….
November 5, 2009 at 6:07 am
@ Michael
“ZeitGeist” appears to be hype ! Confirmation bias makes atheist love this movie the same way Theists clamor to supportive movies about their faith.
I could be wrong — but I doubt it !
November 5, 2009 at 6:44 am
You are not alone Sabio. I underline, I bracket, I put arrows, faces, question marks, little flower doodles and my own notes in my books. Every book I read it’s like I’m studying for an exam. I want to come back and reference my books often, so if I don’t mark them up I’ll waste valuable time having to search through them again and I’m too lazy for that.
November 5, 2009 at 7:10 am
What I find to be unusual about the New Testament is how it’s supposed to be about Jesus, but there is nothing about his life from the age of 12 to around 30 years old.
What happened in that span of time that they did not want others to know?
November 5, 2009 at 7:20 am
Sabio….The Venus Project associated with Zeitgeist is trying to break down all the separation, hate, bias, economic disparities and war that permeates our world culture. I think it is worth a serious look since no one else seems to have any answers……As with any new ideas many will put it down and stick with the status quo…..(just like with religion)…..problem is the status quo is not working….
November 5, 2009 at 7:39 am
“five bucks including shipping and handling”
That’s cheaper than me travelling to C. to get it. ha ha.
Please read it and make a review. I loved the book and Fernando Vallejo is great.
I have recently discovered excellent atheist non-English authors. Like, Pepe Rodriguez from Spain, Jose Saramago from Portugal, Piergiorgio Odifreddi from Italy and Michel Onfray from France.
I haven’t read Pepe R. nor Jose S. yet, but they are my next.
November 5, 2009 at 11:20 am
Michael Rowshan
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You’re right. Most Christians are casual worshipers and haven’t bothered to research and study their religion. I know in my homeland, Catholics only go to church to be baptized and married and when they die.
As for the Zeitgeist, I have to agree with Sabio. Conspiracy theories always make me suspicious. The movie makes it look all so simple, too simple to be true actually.
I’m interested in the Venus project. Maybe they will be able to tell us what’s true and what isn’t.
Sabio
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I watched the movie with a group of atheists. Most of them ate it all up. A few of us decided that the film should be taken into pieces and every “fact” should be researched.
That’s exactly why I prefer books. On a movie, the stuff goes too fast, and if you’re not taking notes, it is hard to know what to further research. The written word is easier to analyze and investigate.
BTW, I don’t write on the books because sometimes I sell them.
Zoe
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I used to do that, but then I realized that the book was so full of notes that it made it hard to find the important ones. Now I write little notes and page numbers on the back. But, since our brains are all wired differently, it makes sense that we will treat books differently.
Brian
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I may write a review for my Spanish blog--and here, too, of course, if the stuff is juicy enough.
November 5, 2009 at 11:35 am
Mark
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What I find to be unusual about the New Testament is how it’s supposed to be about Jesus, but there is nothing about his life from the age of 12 to around 30 years old.
What happened in that span of time that they did not want others to know?
I know. There is so little information about Jesus in the Bible. That must be why people feel free to make him into whatever they like. His sweetness is one thing people have made up. There is nothing about his sweetness in the NT, other than the children scene. But don’t kids get that out of everybody?
Did you know that some believe Jesus went to India between 12 and 30, to learn how to perform miracles? (It’s bonkers, I know, since he never did perform the said miracles)
November 5, 2009 at 4:03 pm
@ Michael
Beliefs have both a) functions and b) truth values. I think false beliefs can have good functions and visa versa. But let’s say that Venus Project is, as you say, “trying to break down all the separation, hate, bias, economic disparities and war that permeates our world culture”, if it does it with false ideas, I am not fond of it because they are simply trying to use false ideas to fight other false ideas. We can do better than that.
I don’t put them down because they are new, but because they are wrong. Easy as that. And they are wrong while they tell us other folks are wrong. Very ironic.
November 5, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Typical response Sabio…..You seem to know it all….must be a heavy burden.
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November 5, 2009 at 6:50 pm
@ Sabio:
I’m a book scribbler. My biggest issue with marking my books is that my handwriting is godawful atrocious, ugly, and terribly sloppy. It’s also hard to read. Did I mention that it looks really bad? I also have quite a few highlighted and clipped portions in my Kindle reader (which is supposed to be electronic equivalent of writing in the margins – I’ll save additional thoughts on that for an upcoming blog post on electronic v. paper&glue books).
November 5, 2009 at 6:53 pm
@ Michael — trust me, not nearly as heavy a burden as holding paranoid conspiracy theories in my forehead all day long ! But thank you for your concern.
November 5, 2009 at 6:56 pm
@ Zoe & Chappy
Sniffle ! I feel the support. I feel the love. Thanks folks.
Geee, I keep daydreaming about Kindle but I guess I wait until everything is digital. I am to scared. Smile. Sounds fun, I am jealous.
Now, how do you guys bookmark the pages you are on?
How many books do you read simultaneously on average?
November 5, 2009 at 6:59 pm
The Zeitgeist “movement” makes me feel really bad. It isn’t inspiring or relevant. Contrarily, it is full of factual inconsistencies (i.e., lies). It reminds me of creationist propaganda, at least in that they say things the same way: sounding authoritative yet using unsourced claims (no scholarly sources at any rate) and falsifiable conspiracy theory claims with minimal amounts of reason and logic.
Have you been fooled, Michael? Look into it further and make that decision for yourself, but don’t make any major, life-altering philosophical changes based on an emotional response. That might be as bad as converting to christianity!
November 5, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Chappie,
=======
My biggest issue with marking my books is that my handwriting is godawful atrocious, ugly, and terribly sloppy. It’s also hard to read. Did I mention that it looks really bad?
Welcome back! That’s hilarious.
My handwriting is really bad, too. But my biggest issue is that once I’ve messed up the pages, they look so messy that my self-diagnosed, Monk-like obsessive compulsive tendencies show up all at once.
Sabio
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I read up to 4 books at once.
Michael
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If proving that Christianity is false were as easy as the Zeitgeist wants us to believe, there would be no religious left.
But, I think there is some merit to the video. For instance, the stuff about Nostradamus was very helpful. For me it’s a matter that taking what’s helpful and throwing out the rest.
ethinethin
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I didn’t know there was a whole movement behind the Zeitgeist. Geez! Maybe I should start a Monty Python movement–or join a local chapter, anyway.
November 6, 2009 at 4:39 am
@ Sabio: I bookmark my books with bookmarks that I make myself from the lightweight cardboard dividers in my green tea boxes. I doodle all over them and make my own unique bookmarks. It’s my way of pretending that I’m a great artist. 
I use to dog-ear my pages but, I have decided such behaviour towards a book is sinful.
I usually read 4 or 5 books at a time and sometimes more. Not sure it’s a good practice but it is a habit. Sometimes I’ll get a book I can’t put down until I’m finished.
November 6, 2009 at 5:38 am
Sabio… You must really have strong opinions about this…sorry I touched a nerve…I just recently watched the video and was impressed with some but not all of it. There is no end all absolute answer to the worlds problems….I do however believe that religion has played a major role in creating them…..I also believe that the political problems we face and the wars that have erupted are influenced by religious beliefs…it seems that both Christianity and Islam want to make the world better for their God…..which is a very dangerous way of thinking. Lorena…..I am wondering how many time Jesus was misquoted throughout history….since so may scribes and religious leaders have decided to take the liberty of changing The Bible time and time again……it makes sense that that much of it is fictional at best….it truly is the greatest story ever sold……
November 6, 2009 at 9:15 am
“it truly is the greatest story ever sold……”
At first, I thought you were saying told. I suppose it is a neat story. I was never a big fan of Jesus, even as a Christian.
I liked God better, for some strange reason. I suppose that God resembles my dictatorial, abusive mother more. There must be some deep psychological reason why I could never completely fall in love with the “sweet Jesus” story.
Maybe it was my brain telling me that it was fiction. But the OT is easier to see as fiction, so, who knows?
November 6, 2009 at 9:38 am
“At first, I thought you were saying told. I suppose it is a neat story. I was never a big fan of Jesus, even as a Christian.”
made me giggle a bit :p
November 14, 2009 at 6:15 am
Lorena,
You might like stuff written by Marcus Borg, a fellow of the Jesus Seminar. His wife is actually an Episcopal priest. Also, “Jesus for the Non-religious,” written by the retired Episcopal bishop, John Shelby Spong.
I’m personally not where these folks are at at all, being more orthodox, and evangelical in the faith, but I think you would find their books interesting if you are interested in the whole search for the historical Jesus school of thought.
November 14, 2009 at 10:55 am
Grace,
Have read Borg. Didn’t like it. He’s going to great lengths to still believe even thought he knows the stuff is pure BS.
November 4, 2009 at 4:05 pm
To complete your digging into the bible origins, I highly recommend The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts by Finkelstein and Silberman.
I just got Misquoting Jesus. I am now more interested, thank you.